Right from the first publication of the Dungeons & Dragon rules, there were spells to bring a dead character back to life. Clerics had the 5th level spell Raise Dead, which instantly raised a slain character, though they had to spend two weeks recovering from the ordeal. There was also the 6th level Magic-User spell Reincarnation, which brought back a dead character, though in a different form based on their alignment.
So bringing a dead character back to life has always been a part of D&D, and most of the games that followed.
I never liked it. Probably due to my preference for sword and sorcery, in which death was final. There were some very few exceptions, like Xaltotun the evil sorcerer in the only Conan novel, The Hour of the Dragon. But this was not a good thing, of course, and in most other stories that bring characters back from the dead, it is pretty hideous. Those characters are changed for the worse.
Fiction and gaming are different, of course. D&D being a game, the inclusion of resurrection magic to continue the life of your dead character makes sense, in the context of being purely a game.
But I still don’t like it. Life is precious. Being able to resurrect a character makes death an inconvenience, and devalues how precious life is. Even, for me, in a gaming context.
I was recently reminded of this by my buddy Rick when he remarked, on the Lead Adventure Forum where I also post the Greywater Chronicles, that Greywater is a tough place with characters getting killed, this in particular reference to Stu the caprian. This was just an observation, he was not advocating anything.
It’s true: Greywater is brutal. Many of the characters who have appeared have died. But I think they have all shined the brighter for it. And the threat of death in every engagement adds tension – or at least, I like to think so!
There was a discussion I had with a guy on the old Necromancer Games forum in the late 2000s. I forgot what set him off, but he went on at length about the glory of last stands and sacrificing your character for a higher ideal. Which I agree with; that makes for dramatic gaming.
But then he continued by saying that you could just whip out the Raise Dead scroll and continue on. He did not see the irony. I pointed out it wasn’t really a sacrifice if you know that you will get raised a few moments later, and the act as a sacrifice becomes meaningless. He got rather angry, and accused me of not understanding valor and a bunch of other unhinged accusations. Gotta love internet chats.
I obviously left the conversation at that point, but it did illustrate to me, again, how resurrection magic devalues not just life itself, but the magnitude of a character’s actions done in the face of imminent death. If all you have to do is push a button to come back to life, you are not sacrificing yourself.
Gaming is a pretty big tent, room for all kinds of ideas. I understand losing a 10th level character hurts. It is just a game, after all, and the magic to bring the character back is as old as the game itself. I really don’t have a problem with other people including it in their campaigns.
But I’ll stick with my life is fragile and precious view, where there is no raising of the dead. Unless it is an utter abomination, like Xaltotun.
I agree cousin. I’ve never liked resurrection magic, although I admit that I’ve DMed some games where it took place. I don’t think I ever felt like it was “earned” at least in any of my campaigns. I always felt maybe guilty about it, like I did something wrong by letting characters get raised or resurrected. That said, conceptually, if you have undead in your campaign, and you are OK with that, well, resurrection is not too far down the road from undead. The same could be said for magic, and Gods.
My latest thinking is that it’s OK if it works in the game “story.” But it’s a big ticket purchase so you really have to earn it. It probably has to be a one-off or super, super rare.
Of course, the safest route in terms of story integrity and tension, I think, is no resurrection at all. If you have a campaign with no resurrection at all, that’s fine right? I like that grit and the tension and finality of it, like you said.
I could see a campaign where resurrection magic works from a storytelling perspective. Consider the Bible, for example, where resurrection is portrayed to deliver an important aspect of the story. Jesus has power over the dead, and he raises Lazarus, as part of telling the reader that Jesus is a big deal and that things are going to change now that he is here. I don’t mean to get into a religious debate or to demean or make any comment on that, other than to say that resurrection accomplishes an important objective in the NT story and it only happens in connection with the BIG main character, I think it works there from a story-telling perspective.
GHHM clearly struggled with resurrection. Some have argued that the way GoT used it (Jon Snow) did not really work so well. I thought it ended up being a bit of a muddle, at least for me. I was going along thinking that the GoT universe was one where death means death, and then Jon Snow is resurrected, but I never really got a clear view of why it happened or whether the story justified it. At first I think, he’s the chosen one! But he’s more of a chump/victim, so I’m not sure it ended up being more than deus ex machina jet-packery. Also, I did not like the whole Lady Stoneheart thing at all. Others might feel differently.
You could have a campaign where resurrection is relatively common, or more common, but I think you need something bigger than death to sustain the tension. Not sure what would replace it. Cutting the astral cord? I don’t know that that is very compelling.
Very interesting topic. Hope you are well!
Hey, Dave,
Hey, cuz! Some tremendous points you have made.
Particularly with the undead. Even though I mentioned Xaltotun, I did not connect my point to the undead. But I think your point illustrates just how I see resurrection magic – it is almost an abomination, and what is raised is not what was. Maybe I should pontificate on that point and connection some more.
Or not – maybe it is just part of my larger problem with resurrection magic.
I think you’re right on Lazarus, illustrating that Jesus was a game-changer. And yeah, not to get into a religious debate where I expose how far I am out of my depth (I accomplish that quite well with everything else I talk about), but that story does have power for the reasons you cite.
I actually never finished GoT on the small screen, for various reasons. I dropped the books when it became apparent the story might not get finished. The story was pretty good, but a little too misery touristy for my tastes. I don’t mind grim and dark, but there was a bit too much sadism in the story – maybe the show was different? Thanks for spoiling it!
Mom and I are doing well! All of our love to your family.
Thanks for stopping by, Dave, it is always great to hear from you! And if you ever want to write a guest post for my blog, say the word!
Dearest cousin,
First of all, super glad that all is well with you and Sam. That is great to hear.
Second, I first read this on my phone, and it looked like you called me “cuz1” I then imagined that “cuz1” was your affectionate nickname for me and that it represented your estimation of where I stand in the ranking of cousins. I thought, “that makes Tara cuz2, and it leaves Portia and Jeff to fight it out for cuz 3 and cuz 4.” Later, when I sat down to write my response on computer, I saw it was actually [cuz][exclamation point] and it made me feel vain and petty. But it was a nice ten minutes or so.
I think your initial post on resurrection is super thoughtful. And I think it highlights a question that all fantasy writers and GMs should answer: how much, if any, resurrection will there be in my story/campaign? The very large problem with allowing it in a game means you run the risk of the video game phenomenon where you die and then go back to the last save, which prolongs the fun but kind of kills story integrity.
And that is part of why I totally feel you when you say that what happens after death is an abomination. But you’ve got me thinking. Imagine a world where, in the words of Nicol Williamson’s Merlin (the best Merlin, ever: fight me), “death is but a dream”? It makes me think about AD & D: what are the social, economic, and cultural consequences of clerics and druids being able to raise the dead? That’s kind of a big deal, right? The next question you would want to answer is how common is this resource? is it scarce? AD & D seems to assume that it is kind of scarce. Boutique resurrection services for the rich? Even if rare, no political ruler would ever die of anything but old age. Or like magic in Runequest does everyone have access? The more I try to play it out in my head, the weirder it gets. But I think this concept is a fertile source of potential campaign stories.
Thanks for the invite to write for your blog. It’s far more in my character to play the critic and take potshots at others than it is to be constructive and create. But your invitation is among the nicest things anyone’s said to me this year, so thank you and I will take you up on that. You will deeply regret this later, but it’s really too late to take it back now.
Finally, upon further reflection, I sincerely apologize for my carelessness in potentially spoiling what happens with Lazarus/Jesus; I’m greatly relieved that you were already familiar with that powerful story. That said, given the international acclaim of the GoT HBO series combined with your lifelong obsession with reading fantasy, I cannot accept any measure of shame for you being the one person not living on Sentinel Island who (once) did not know the plot arc of GoT. Next, are you going to tell me that you have never eaten cereal?
OK, that’s enough for now. Stay well Bret and say hello to all the members of your chapter of the Winters clan.
DW
Dave,
Indeed I did have “1” in place of “!” initially. So your eyes did not deceive you, and I do bear some measure of grief for crushing your joy at being at the top of the cousin pyramid. If you have ever seen some of my reviews of stories, I tend to be critical of typos in professional products, so I get embarrassed when I do it. Fortunately, I can go back and edit what I write here, so when some smarty-pants points out one of my own typos I go back and change it and then respond with a self-righteous, “Oh, yeah? Where?” It makes me feel very powerful, cuz4.
(Did I just type that out loud?)
Another strong point, on tying resurrection to the video game save function. I’ve played Baldur’s Gate 1 and 2 a lot, and Temple of Elemental Evil, too, and a few times tried to go through without doing saves. Ended up using saves. Perhaps that blunts the purity of my arguments, but that is definitely what I don’t want to do in live gaming.
Nicol is Merlin. Shoulda known we’d be on the same team!
The implications of resurrection, boutique or otherwise, on the campaign is interesting, and worthy of exploration. I’ve never explored it because I just don’t allow it. But for those who do, yeah, I wonder how it would all play out if you focused on those effects. And then, would the gods be pissed that clerics would be bringing people back?
Cereal…rings a bell…
I’d love to have you write on here, Dave, and it is an open invitation. Not just a single time, either. I may come to regret it, but I’ve had my breakfast whisky so as of right now, no regrets.
Bret
Oh and sorry for the one long paragraph. I tried to create paragraphs, but they were not preserved. Is there a trick for making paragraphs in these comment boxes?
Looks like it worked, so it must have just been the way the message looked after you sent it while it was awaiting my almighty moderation power.
I’m going on memory here, so it may not be 100% accurate, but I recall that in AD&D “Raise Dead” and “Resurrection” spells were not guaranteed. I think it was based on your constitution–which was supposed to drop by a point every time you were raised.
Hey, Adrian,
I remember that the chances of surviving resurrection was not 100% in D&D, but that it was pretty high. Your comment made me go back and look the subject up in the Player’s Handbook.
A character with an 11 (average) constitution has an 80% chance of surviving Resurrection or Raise Dead in AD&D. At 13 Con, it is 90%, and goes up 2% for every point of Con thereafter until 100% at an 18. Not guaranteed, but pretty close for an average Con.
Being resurrected does not reduce your Con, but you are limited to how many times you can be raised by your Con score.
Reincarnation is automatic, no resurrection survival roll or system shock survival roll required, and it does not count against your Con maximum on being raised.
In Original D&D, there is the phrase under Raise Dead that if the character’s Constitution was weak, the spell would not work. Rather than being spelled out under Constitution in Men & Magic, it is indicated in the table of bonuses and penalties based on characteristics following. From the table, it is clear, that Con 7 has 40% chance of surviving raise dead, and it goes up 10% every point after until 13 where it is 100%.
Thanks for the thoughtful comment! I enjoyed going back through the PH (a digital copy, unfortunately; my physical copy is on life support) and my little brown books (physical copies, sadly not my originals which are long gone).
Bret
Hah! My memory isn’t bad considering I haven’t actually looked at the Player’s Handbook for like 20 years. I like how the reincarnation spell, as it (assumingly) follows the natural laws, has no constitution check.
Through my years of gaming I encountered a lot of house rules regarding raising characters from the dead. Things like your first resurrection gives you an experience bonus, and all the others you lose experience; your character has to fulfil some goals for the god of the cleric that raised you; that kind of thing.